were valorizing stability goals that bleed the life out of people that sort of train people towards

sociopathy, towards narcissism, towards bad behavior, and towards massive existential crises or

addictions or mental health issues because we are not holding space for

who are you what do you want who do you want to be an intimate partnership with?

Which friends do you want to have?

Is there a religion that speaks to you?

Does art or dancing or play or poetry or literature bring you joy? Do you want to play music in the morning? I mean, just the most basic things about what bring us joy on a sensate level, on an emotional level.

Once people are in these institutions the way that society has crafted them and held them up

as the pinnacle of achievement, you know, it's hard to tell somebody who's worked their whole life to get into Harvard, who's then miserable as a junior in Harvard.

Gosh, sorry, society kind of lied to you and your families lied to you.

What's actually true is that this may not bring you the kind of joy and

satisfaction in life that you were told it would.

I feel for people who are in these situations, it's hard to explain that actually on some

level they've been sold a false bill of goods.

I'm Sreni Rao and this is the unmistakable Creative Podcast where you get a window into the stories and insights of the most innovative and creative minds who started movements built thriving thriving businesses, written best selling books, and created

insanely interesting art.

For more, check out our 500 welcome to the unmistakable creative.

Thanks much for taking the time to join us.

Thanks for having me.

I'm delighted to be here.

It is my pleasure to have you here. I found out about you and your work by way of

William Dershooitz, who mentioned your book, Order Life, in an interview I did with him recently and when I finished reading it the first thought I had was where the hell was this when I started call I got out of college.

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