Bernardo Kastrup vs. Susan Blackmore: Idealism Meets Illusionism

Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal

Curt Jaimungal

Physics, Philosophy, Society & Culture, Science

4.6 • 606 Ratings

🗓️ 16 June 2023

⏱️ 91 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Susan Blackmore, a psychologist known for her work on consciousness, joins former computer scientist turned philosopher Bernardo Kastrup to examine the illusionist view of consciousness. They debate materialism, idealism, and phenomena such as telepathy, psi, and near-death experiences, exploring how mindfulness and dissociative boundaries shape our understanding.- 00:00:00 - Introduction- 00:05:04 - Illusionism is misunderstood- 00:07:40 - Who is the "illusion" happening to?- 00:09:20 - Bernardo's disagreements with illusionists- 00:19:35 - Materialism doesn't work- 00:28:21 - Mindfulness and mind-altering experiences aid the philosophy?- 00:30:34 - Why aren't you a panspsychist?- 00:38:27 - The regularity of the laws of nature in Idealism- 00:49:45 - The simplest understanding of a "dissociative boundary"- 00:54:57 - Telepathy in Idealism and in science- 01:06:21 - The "self"- 01:15:04 - Psi phenomenon (NDEs, Precognition, ...)- 01:17:32 - What would convince you to believe the opposite of what you think?- 01:21:44 - Bernardo witnessed the miraculous (personal story)SPONSORS:- Crypto: https://tinyurl.com/cryptoTOE- PayPal: https://tinyurl.com/paypalTOE- Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt- Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs- iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802- Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b9...- Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeveryt...- TOE Merch: https://tinyurl.com/TOEmerchRESOURCES:- Daniel Dennett - "Consciousness Explained": https://amzn.to/3Nxz2Pa- Susan Blackmore - "The Meme Machine": https://amzn.to/3oYdthy- Susan Blackmore - "Conversations on Consciousness": https://amzn.to/448ohIR- Schooler - "Dissociations Between Awareness and Meta-Awareness": https://labs.psych.ucsb.edu/schooler/jonathan/sites/labs.psych.ucsb.edu.schooler.jonathan/files/pubs/1-s2.0-s1364661302019496-main.pdf- William James - "The Principles of Psychology": https://amzn.to/443nmcA- Richard Feynman - "QED: The Strange Theory of Light and Matter": https://amzn.to/3Pg8W4I Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal features long-form, technically detailed interviews with leading researchers in physics, mathematics, consciousness, and philosophy, exploring topics at the level of active research. For academics, graduate students, and anyone seeking depth beyond popular science. SPONSOR: I personally subscribe to The Economist. TOE listeners get 35% off the annual subscription. No other podcast has this! https://economist.com/TOE FOLLOW: Substack | Spotify | YouTube | Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	This episode is brought to you by Shopify. With Shopify, 2026 is the year you make it happen. It gives you the tools to build your dream store, online and in person. Plus with marketing built in, it'll help you reach exactly who you need to. Join the millions who've already made the leap, like Jim Shark and all birds, and ring in the new year with Shopify.
0:23.4	Sign up for your £1 per month trial at Shopify.com.ukau.uk slash Spotify.
0:30.1	Consciousness is not there. Consciousness is not a personal self. It's not a soul. It's phenomenal states.
0:35.8	It has a precise definition.
0:38.4	I totally and utterly disagree with you.
0:41.3	Good.
0:43.7	All right. This is one highly anticipated episode.
0:47.6	Today we have a theolocussion with Susan Blackmore and Bernardo Castro.
0:52.0	Well, what is a theolocation? It's a conversation between two people
0:55.3	who are trying to understand one another's views and even constructively, that is, add to the so-called
1:00.8	opponent's views in real time, rather than destructively criticizing with snark and even prepared
1:06.9	lines, which is what unfortunately tends to characterize most clashing of ideas.
1:11.6	So you can think of a theolocation as a Socratic dialogue that's moderated with regard, appreciation, and fondness.
1:17.6	Bernardo Castro is a leading voice in the field of philosophy of mind.
1:22.6	He's also a strong advocate of what's called analytic idealism.
1:26.6	Bernardo argues that consciousness is fundamental in nature, a viewpoint which is articulated
1:31.6	in his probative works, including why materialism is baloney, and the idea of the world.
1:37.5	Links to both books are in the description as well as links to everything as usual.
1:41.0	Because of the contrasting views, in my opinion, this episode serves as the best,
1:45.3	at least the one that I've seen, the best introduction to Bernardo's ideas. Although this is
1:50.1	only the case when one already has an overview of some of the theories of consciousness that exist.
1:55.1	Else you'll just be weltering and swimming. Now, Susan Blackmore is a visiting professor
	...

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