Welcome to the Bullwork podcast. I'm Charlie Sikes. It is May 3rd, 2023. Breaking news, the Alpha

Man running away from both debates and testimony in the E. Jean Carroll case. CNN is still struggling

to explain why it is giving the twice impeached, indicted accused rapist sedition, inspiring

ex-president, prime time town hall meeting. The Texas legislature moving toward allowing

Republican officials to overturn elections. And my Morning Shots newsletter focuses on

the 26 women who have accused Donald Trump of sexual misconduct. There's so much going

on. We are joined by Ben Smith, co-founder of Sema 4, previously the media columnist at the

New York Times founding editor-in-chief at BuzzFeed News. And he has a brand new book which

just came out this week, Traffic, Genius, rivalry and delusion in the billion dollar race to

go viral. So first of all, good morning, Ben. Thanks so much for having me, Charlie.

Well, I want to talk about this book, which I told you I read on a plane to Phoenix last week.

The origin stories of this incredible shit show that we now find ourselves in the middle of is,

yeah, that's honestly what the subtitle should have been. That should have been the subtitle.

But some editors said no. Before we get into all that, I'm really conflicted. And I'm having a

hard time parsing through this latest story about Tucker Carlson and the New York Times report that

that they have this bombshell text that apparently alarmed the Fox board and might have contributed

to his firing. This is the New York Times reporting a text message sent by Tucker Carlson,

the set off a panic at the highest levels of Fox and the eve of its billion dollar defamation

trial showed its most popular host, sharing his private inflammatory views about violence and race.

And he talks about how he was watching a video of some Trump guys beating up an antifa kid. And he

said, I found myself rooting for the mob against the man hoping they'd hit him harder. Kill him.

I really wanted them to hurt the kid. I could taste it. Says, you know, this is not the way

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