Ben Judah - The Most Controversial Island That Is Splitting The West
The Winston Marshall Show
Winston Marshall
4.8 • 658 Ratings
🗓️ 28 February 2026
⏱️ 56 minutes
🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS
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Summary
In this episode of The Winston Marshall Show, I sit down with journalist and former government adviser Ben Judah to dissect the Chagos Islands deal, Diego Garcia, and the geopolitical battle shaping Britain’s future.
We examine why the UK agreed to hand sovereignty of the Chagos Islands to Mauritius, the role of the International Court of Justice, and how UN decolonisation rulings placed mounting legal and diplomatic pressure on Britain. Judah explains the strategic importance of Diego Garcia, the sensitive US military capabilities based there, and why American officials quietly pushed London towards a settlement.
The conversation explores China’s growing influence in the Indian Ocean, the risk of Mauritius pivoting towards Beijing, and why British officials feared losing access to critical US military infrastructure. We debate sovereignty, international law, national security, and whether Britain was defending its interests or surrendering territory under diplomatic pressure.
We also discuss the future of Britain’s Overseas Territories, proposals to integrate them more fully into the United Kingdom, and whether the Chagos deal reflects strategic realism or managed decline.
A serious and wide-ranging conversation about geopolitics, American power, China’s rise, and whether Britain still knows how to protect its global position.
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Chapters
00:00 Introduction
01:20 The Strategic Importance of Diego Garcia
06:32 The Secret US–UK Deal and “Super Capacities”
09:35 UN Rulings, ICJ Pressure & China’s Role
12:09 Why Washington Forced Britain’s Hand
14:47 Legal vs Military Defence: The China Risk
18:52 Could Mauritius Win a Binding Judgment?
21:17 Why the Americans Might Move the Base
23:10 The Real Prize: UK Access to US Capabilities
28:54 “Everything Changes So Nothing Changes” – Inside the Deal
30:00 Can Mauritius Invite China In?
32:31 Why Rubio, Vance & the Pentagon Backed It
35:29 Trump’s Flip-Flop and the Iran Question
40:31 What If Mauritius Breaks the Agreement?
42:31 Why Britain Is Paying 0.2% of Its Defence Budget
44:33 This Isn’t About Land — It’s About Power
45:30 Legal, Diplomatic & Hard Power Layers of Defence
51:52 Overseas Territories: From Colonies to “Overseas Kingdoms”
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hello and welcome to the Winston Marshall Show with me, Winston Marshall. |
| 0:03.7 | I sat down with writer and former government advisor Ben Judah. |
| 0:07.8 | Ben Judah, a man behind the Chegos deal. |
| 0:11.9 | On this show, we've been calling the Chegos surrender deal for some time. |
| 0:16.1 | And if you've been listening to this show for some time, |
| 0:18.4 | you'll know that we've covered this from as early as |
| 0:20.9 | 2024, but given how little information was escaping the foreign office here in Britain or indeed |
| 0:28.6 | the State Department in America, it's been hard to make out exactly why we would do what |
| 0:34.6 | on the surface it seems like such a ridiculous deal. |
| 0:37.7 | Well, Ben gets into what really was going on behind the scenes. |
| 0:44.7 | And this is not just the story of modern diplomacy, |
| 0:49.2 | but it's also a little look into how our current establishment government officials are operating, |
| 0:57.0 | how they're thinking, how they're working, and whatever you might think of this Chegos deal, |
| 1:02.1 | whether you're firmly anti it still or whether you are in favor of it. The insight here from |
| 1:09.1 | Ben is very, very interesting. But before you hear from Ben, |
| 1:13.5 | I just wanted to say thanks again for your continued support. Remember to press subscribe and follow |
| 1:17.0 | wherever you get your podcasts from. And if you head over to winstonmartial.com.uk, |
| 1:21.5 | not only will you enjoy at reviewing and listening, but you'll have the opportunity to ask |
| 1:25.8 | future guests your questions. That's all |
| 1:28.6 | at Winston-martial.co.uk. But without further ado, Ben Judo, welcome to the show. Thank you so |
| 1:36.2 | much for taking time to speak with me. It is the Chegos that I want to discuss with you. |
| 1:42.5 | Until last weekend, many of us in the country have been shocked, bewildered, confused by the decision for Kirstama, not just to relinquish British territory, but to pay for the pleasure, ÂŁ101 million annually for 99 years. |
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