Believing Is Seeing: Inside the Modern Paranormal Movement

The Michael Shermer Show

Michael Shermer

Dialogue, Science, Reason, Michaelshermer, Natural Sciences, Skeptic

4.4 • 921 Ratings

🗓️ 24 May 2025

⏱️ 83 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In 2010, in a small New Hampshire town, next door to a copy center and framing shop, a ghost lab opened. The Kitt Research Initiative’s mission was to use the scientific method to document the existence of spirits. Founder Andy Kitt was known as a straight-shooter; he was unafraid—perhaps eager—to offend other paranormal investigators by exposing the fraudulence of their less advanced techniques. But when KRI started to lose money, Kitt began to seek funding from the paranormal community, attracting flocks of psychics, alien abductees, witches, mediums, ghost hunters, UFOlogists, cryptozoologists and warlocks from all over New England, and the world. And there were plenty of them around.

Matthew Hongoltz-Hetling, author of the new book The Ghost Lab, explains the wild ecosystem of paranormal profiteers and consumers through the astonishing story of what happened in this one small town. He also maps the trends of declining scientific literacy, trust in institutions, and the diffusion of a culture that has created space for armies of pseudoscientists to step into the minds of an increasingly credulous public.

Matthew Hongoltz-Hetling is a freelance journalist specializing in narrative features and investigative reporting. He was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize. He is the author of A Libertarian Walks Into a Bearand It Sounds Like a Quack. His new book is The Ghost Lab: How Bigfoot Hunters, Mediums, and Alien Enthusiasts are Wrecking Science.

Transcript

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0:00.0	You're listening to The Michael Shermer Show.
0:15.8	All right, everybody, it's time for another episode of the Michael Shermer show.
0:19.1	I'm your host.
0:20.3	Michael Shermermer as you
0:21.1	know i have a special guest today we're talking about my favorite subject what is my favorite
0:26.8	subject the paranormal the supernatural my guest uh is the author of this book the ghost lab you can see why
0:33.3	when his publicist contacted me i said yeah i got to get got to get this guy on. How Bigfoot hunters, mediums, and alien enthusiasts are wrecking science. Okay. So you can tell he's not a
0:44.6	supernatural believer, paranormal believer. He is Matthew Hengoltz Hetling, a freelance journalist
0:50.7	specializing in narrative features and investigative reporting.
0:54.7	He's been named a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize, won a George Polk Award,
0:59.4	and been voted Journalist of the Year by the Maine Press Association, among other honors.
1:05.5	His work has appeared in Foreign Policy, USA Today, Popular Science, Adivist magazine, Pulitzer Center on Crisis Reporting,
1:15.0	the Associated Press, and elsewhere. He's the author two prior books. A libertarian walks into a bear.
1:22.1	When I first read that, the bar, bear? Oh, bear. And then it sounds like a quack, so you can tell he's got a good sense of humor.
1:29.3	His new book, here it is again, The Ghost Lab,
1:31.6	how Bigfoot Hunters, Mediums, and Alien Enthusus are wrecking science.
1:35.6	All right, Matthew, nice to see you.
1:37.3	I should point out to our viewers that you're in an unusual studio.
1:41.8	Your car. Yeah, Michael, I'd be your very first podcast guest to speak by car. What a special treat for your listeners.
1:50.7	I think that I think you are the first for that. Yeah. So I love this book. Here's how far I got.
1:55.6	I got to where my pen is, right? So I got all the way to there. That's most of it.
2:04.5	Absolutely. Well, I didn't know you were such a good writer. I thought it was going to be a straightforward repertoire and I could just kind of skim through it because I know the subject so well. Thank you for having me on your show.
	...

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