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We couldn't do it without you. Oh, Hello and welcome to Belaboring the Point. I am your host Kate Riga.

Today I'm lucky enough to be joined by TPM's own Nicole Affond.

Nicole Hello.

Hi, thanks for having me today.

We just wrapped up a conversation with Dr. Kathleen Jameson

where we kind of, we discussed the merits of debates in general and in our current kind of

fractured media a political landscape when you have one you know almost certainly

general election presidential candidate who has proven himself hard to restrain both, you know, physically and rhetorically during debates.

So we kind of got into all of that.

And you know, I just have to say,

Kathleen just completely kind of changed my mind about this

because I think debates have gotten so uncomfortable

since the Trump era and then as you know as she kind of pointed out how

his norm-breaking behavior his tactic of like relentless interruption and kind of

...