And the Hello. Hello and welcome to Belaboring the Point. I'm your host Kate Riga. I'm joined here by

TPM's very own Josh Marshall after we just wrapped a conversation with TPM's other own

Hunter Walker and Lupe Lupe Luppin who have just finished up a book about some of the internal divisions of the Democratic Party.

You know, their book kind of stretches back to the 2020 campaign and in our conversation,

I think we connected it to a lot of the bigger narrative themes that are kind of big topics of conversation today.

So what do you think Josh terrible conversation nobody should listen like super flop?

Yeah, this is this is a great book that I

actually read a few months ago because I blurbed it and one of the interesting

things is as you said it's about divisions in the Democratic Party but it's actually about how

the party overcame those divisions in 2020 so it's a sort of a Democrats in array

history of the last five years and I thought the conversation about it was really great you know I think the book is a fascinating

one it's it's a narrative history, not like a manifesto or takes or something like that.

And we had a really enjoyable and interesting discussion of it.

And we're also going to publish an excerpt from it on TPM.

Yeah, I think what's most interesting is the book is kind of a corrective to this idea

that's constantly laundered through, you know, mainstream media and

everything that progressives are the problem and that they're, they have these

like unrealistic expectations and they can't temper that with the realities of

legislating and even after Biden's first term I think that's still like the most default set for those stories you know like that's you can tell people are trying to shape the stories into those contours

and that was not at all the story of his first two years and particularly the

story of the biggest legislative accomplishments of his presidency so far, which were achieved kind of on the backs of progressives with, as Hunter and Lupe call these radical centrist being, you know, the biggest source of kind of consternation during those

negotiations. Yeah I mean one thing as you said you know that there was always

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