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Jacobin Radio

Behind the News: The “Anti-Woke” Culture War w/ Jodi Dean

Jacobin Radio

Jacobin

Socialism, History, News, Left, Jacobin, Alternative, Socialist, Politics

4.71.5K Ratings

🗓️ 11 August 2025

⏱️ 53 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Jodi Dean, author of a recent article about the “classism of defeat,” makes a case for why going anti-woke is very wrong. Emily Jashinsky analyzes Marjorie Taylor Greene’s use of the word “genocide” and other curious developments on the Right.

Behind the News, hosted by Doug Henwood, covers the worlds of economics and politics and their complex interactions, from the local to the global. Find the archive online: https://www.leftbusinessobserver.com/radio.html

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

The

0:07.0

The Hello and behind the news. My name is Doug Henwood, an anchor of stability in a destabilized world, at least most of the time.

0:40.4

Two guests, two segments today.

0:42.5

We'll hear from Jody Dean and why the left should not be anti-woke, and then from Emily Jashinsky on Fisher's and previously solid right-wing support for Israel.

0:51.4

Some people on the left have reacted to the second round of Trump by saying that maybe

0:55.1

he's right about wokeness, that it had gone too far. It had alienated the ever-elusive and

1:00.1

fundamentally undefinable normies. Instead of celebrating marginalized identities, we should focus

1:05.6

instead in an economic agenda that unifies the working class. I've spent decades on economic issues, and I'm all for

1:12.0

focusing on them, but not to the exclusion of the so-called cultural issues. Okay, there is some silly

1:17.3

languish policing and the like, but overall, this line strikes me as a failure of solidarity

1:21.5

and a betrayal of some of the weakest, most marginalized members of this violent hierarchical

1:26.1

society. Frequent behind the news guest Jody Dean has an excellent piece called Beyond the Classism

1:31.6

of Defeat that first appeared several months ago in Spanish in the Latin American edition

1:35.9

of Jacobin.

1:37.0

It's now out in English on a site called Communists.

1:40.0

She sees its surrender to anti-wokism as a sign of weakness, a failure of imagination,

1:45.0

driven by a deep misunderstanding of who and what the working class is today.

1:49.2

Jody is a professor of political science at Hobart and William Smith colleges in Geneva, New York.

1:54.0

Jody D.

1:55.1

You open your article with the moment when Javier Malay, the maniacally libertarian president of Argentina,

2:00.6

bestowed a chainsaw on Elon at the

2:03.2

CEPAC conference earlier this year.

...

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