You're listening to the Allender Center podcast with Dr. Dan Allender.

This week, Dan is joined by friend and colleague Wendell Moss to talk about the implications

of the phrase, I am not a racist. Dan and Wendell ask deeply reflective

questions. Are we willing to reflect on the racial trauma our country holds? Are we willing to

acknowledge what is held in our own bodies and hearts in regards to racism? So today, we invite

you, as compassionate followers of Jesus, to join us as courageous listeners and ask,

what work needs to be done in order to move from not being a racist to becoming an anti-racist?

Well, my privilege again to be with my dear friend Wendell Moss.

And Wendell, as we ended last week on the category of racism, what it means to be an anti-racist,

afterwards, we had a great discussion that I wish we had taped about,

we can reclaim a portion of it. And I had said,

Kendi's book, How to Be an Anti-Racist, you know, he owned a part of his own racism. But as

you put it well, and that is, this is a different tree. We're not talking about racism in the white world and racism in the black world as coming from the same tree.

And I would love for you to take us a step further in that as we begin to talk about,

what does it mean to become more and more and anti-racist?

Yeah, I think when I think about it's worse,

I think it's always a question, well, can't people color be racist or blacks?

I've seen racism amongst each other.

And I feel like, yeah, there's been this sense between black and light and dark African-Americans

and feeling like, the lighter you are, the righter you are.

But realizing over the years that, again, that is racism, yes, and yet it is of a different

hue.

...