Joe, once upon a time, when you were a lot younger, you were pretty heavy in credit card debt, right?

And you just were in kind of a bad financial position.

First of all, I'm incredibly young still today, Paula.

Number two is when you said when you were incredibly heavy, I'm like, whoa, wait a minute, easy.

But yes, I was horrible with money. I was rotten with money.

I had ruined my credit, tons of credit card debt, nowhere to turn.

During that time, were you ever afraid to ask for help?

Like, did you kind of want to just follow the ostrich, bury your head in the sand?

Well, there's a big lie that I actually talk about a lot now, Paula, which is the lie that we are these islands.

And I got myself into it. I should be able to get myself out of it, which truly, the brain that got you into it,

shouldn't be trusted to be the same brain that gets you out of it.

So then how did you hit that inflection point where you actually asked for help?

Well, I was driving home from a meeting across town.

And I was in this rusted out minivan because my credit was so bad I couldn't get a new one.

Literally, a friend Paula told me he's like, oh, I know, you know, going to buy a new car isn't a great deal.

But new car dealers have all these creative financing things.

They totally give credit to anybody.

Like, I came clean with one friend of mine and go, I'm screwed and I need a new car.

So I walk into this car dealer and I came clean with him.

I go, hey, my friend recommended you. He said, you all kinds of creative financing.

I have amazingly bad credit and he goes, oh, I got you.

I got you. Give me your, give me your social security number.

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