Welcome to Pushback. I'm Aaron Mate. Joining me is Lyle Goldstein. He is research professor and

founding director of the China Maritime Studies Institute at the U.S. Naval War College.

Lyle Goldstein, welcome to Pushback.

Aaron, thanks. It's so great to be here.

I'm a huge fan of gray zone and pushback, so it's great to be on.

Let me say right at the outset, though, I want to say these are my own opinions and don't

reflect in any way the official assessments of the U.S. Navy or any agency of the U.S. government.

Well, it's great to have you on.

You study very closely China and Russia.

So I wanted to have you on to talk about how Biden is approaching both of these countries in his first few months in office

and how Biden's stance might be bringing

China and Russia closer together. Let's start with China. What do you make so far of how China is

approaching the U.S. and vice versa? You had recently some acrimony on display at that meeting in Alaska

where Tony Blinken made accusations

against China. China responded with accusations against the U.S., both chatting each other for

human rights abuses and seemingly affronting global norms and international law.

So what do you make so far of how China and the U.S. are approaching each other?

It's, I'm rather disappointed, to be honest.

I was hoping that we might see some kind of reset on China policy.

I mean, U.S.-China relations have been in a terrible place, a very dark place, and I've

been extremely concerned, especially through the final years of the Trump administration.

I, you know, I've been looking at China for, well, two and a half decades, and really,

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