Nobody wants to look at something for very long that makes you feel awkward or dirty.

So art can be true, but I think if we had more beauty than, you know, ugly, I think we'd probably be in a better frame of mind.

I can read 30 pages on the problem of evil and arguments

for God and so forth and not get what I get in a single moment reading a beautiful short story or watching a beautiful

performance, hearing a beautiful song, seeing a beautiful song,

seeing a beautiful work of art, a beautiful sculpture,

and in that moment sort of having this sublime sense

that I was made to look modern church.

This is Whitehorse Sin, a weekly roundtable discussion about theology and culture. I have the wonderful pleasure of having a good friend on the program right now and

tar water and right out of the, I'd like to ask you to tell the story about how your husband,

also patron of the arts, celebrated your anniversary.

Well, it was quite the surprise to start with.

I think I was in my mid-50s.

So Michael and I've been married now about 38, 37 years and we had invited some

friends to go out for dinner and I had no idea that he was going to take all of us to the ballet and I was on the board of the ballet.

So we got to the restaurant and he had set out all the orderves and after a few minutes after

everyone had sort of had something to eat, he said, okay, we got to go. I said, Michael, you can't do this. I mean, these people

need to have dinner. And he said, no, no, they're fine, they're fine. So we all

jump in the car and we go to the ballet center and we get there and it's

very awkward because I'm trying to introduce all of my friends to the staff and none of them wanted to really speak to me.

So we head into the auditorium.

I usually look at the bill,

...