because of the culture of secrecy and the military understanding of secrecy, you can't say the honest thing first, and you create this room for the mostly true thing to be completely dismissed. Hello and welcome to Zach Won't Save Us.

I'm your host, Paris Marks, and wow, do I have an interesting show for you this week.

It's a bit different from what we usually talk about, but hey, there's still

a tech angle here, and I think it will be a lot of fun. My guest is Kelsey Atherton. Kelsey is a

military technology journalist who contributes to popular science, has written for Slate, and a number

of other publications. You might have noticed recently that there's been a lot of new talk about UFOs or UAPs, unidentified aerial phenomena, especially in the United States, because there has been kind of, I guess, more effort and more resources given to investigations into these phenomena, whether they're real, whether there are really aliens, you know,

up in the sky who are surveilling us. And listen, I have long been kind of fascinated by this

topic when I was younger. I used to love watching like documentaries and shows about aliens and

UFOs, you know, videos on YouTube, of course, wondering whether that was something that was real and actually happening and actually affecting us.

And so now to see it kind of in the conversation again and to see some of the writing that Kelsey has been doing about this topic, not just, you know, kind of the recent revelations or the recent discussions around this, but also

going back to the history and kind of where these original myths and ideas came from and how

they really entered into the pop culture. So there are so many kind of fascinating elements of this,

including getting into what is Area 51, you know, whether there are really

alien spaceships held there and what actually goes on. So yeah, if you've ever had like

an inkling of interest in UFOs and the conspiracy theories around them, I think that you'll find

this episode pretty fun. And you know what? Maybe you will disagree with our conclusions

and how we feel about whether there are really UFOs out there. But I think either way,

you'll have a good adventure, a good time listening through this conversation. And I'm sure that

you'll learn some things as well. So with that said, please enjoy my conversation with Kelsey.

If you like it,

make sure to leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You can also share the show on

social media or with any friends or colleagues who you think would learn from it. And if you

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