Gide, humans.

This is an uncomfortable conversation.

This is an uncomfortable conversation at many times throughout it.

Sometimes you listeners will hit me up and say, well, uncomfortable conversations aren't very uncomfortable, really.

You know, you were talking to someone who you agreed with quite a lot, to which I have to point out that

the name of the show refers to conversations about uncomfortable things that are difficult to

tease out in a nuanced way without alienating some people or triggering some cultural tripwires,

things that we don't want to talk about, that we don't want to be honest with each other about,

that we'd rather sit inside our silos of predetermined ideology on.

So it doesn't necessarily mean that the conversation itself is uncomfortable.

It just might mean that I'm speaking with someone who I agree with completely in a totally

comfortable way, but about some sort of subject that is likely to make some of our listeners

uncomfortable.

Well, not this episode.

This episode is, well, I'll let you listen to it.

Clementine Ford is a feminist.

That's an understatement.

She's a very, very prominent, much-belo loathed Australian feminist who has, she exploded onto the scene with a book called Fight Like a Girl.

And her follow-up book was called Boys Will Be Boys.

Fight Like a Girl was a real shot across the bow, saying that women and girls

need to stand up and fight the patriarchy. And boys will be boys was a broadside against the

way that we bring up boys and I guess what you might call toxic masculinity. She has gotten into

...