Arash Azizi and Jodi Kantor: Iran Has the Leverage
The Bulwark Podcast
The Bulwark
4.6 • 11.6K Ratings
🗓️ 6 May 2026
⏱️ 89 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
The regime in Tehran is not as fractured as is commonly portrayed, and it is also pragmatic enough to see the economic opportunities that would follow from a deal with an eager-to-please-the-markets Donald Trump. But the contours of a potential agreement look like a win for Iran—not for the U.S., which has spent billions a day, lost military personnel and assets, and handed Iran new-found leverage over the global economy. Also, in this season of commencement, Jodi has advice for new college grads on how to navigate the tough employment market and a digitized hiring process. Plus, the Supreme Court's embrace of the shadow docket and John Roberts' pivotal role in the shift, what it's like to listen to Harvey Weinstein mansplain, moneyed Iranians apocalypsemaxxing, and examining Zionism through the prism of the nationalism movement at the time of Israel's founding.
The Times’s Jodi Kantor and The Atlantic’s Arash Azizi join Tim Miller.
show notes
- Arash on Iran mostly wanting a deal
- Jodi's new book, "How to Start: Discovering Your Life's Work"
- Arash's book, "What Iranians Want: Women, Life, Freedom"
- Arash on Zionism and the nationalism movement
- Jodi and Adam Liptak on the birth of the shadow docket at SCOTUS
- Tickets for our Bulwark Live shows in San Diego on 5/20 and in LA on 5/21: TheBulwark.com/Events
- Learn a new Language and get up to 60% off your subscription at Babbel.com/BULWARK
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hello and welcome to the board podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. We have a gargantuan mega double pod today. In segment two, it is Jody Cantor of the New York Times. |
| 0:23.5 | She's got a new bookout with Life Advice for College Grads. We also talked about some news. |
| 0:28.1 | And, you know, it's a long one today, but I'm telling you, make it to the end of the pod |
| 0:32.8 | because it is a really moving discussion with Jody about her career and life advice for the college grad in your life. |
| 0:43.3 | So do stick around for that. |
| 0:45.4 | One more reminder. |
| 0:47.1 | We got shows coming up in San Diego and Los Angeles. |
| 0:50.1 | May 20th, downtown San Diego, May 21st, downtown L.A. |
| 0:53.5 | Tickets are on sale. The borg.com slash events. |
| 0:55.8 | I've got fun stuff planned. |
| 0:57.4 | I threw out the idea of a T-shirt cannon yesterday. No promises, but you know where my head's at, all right? We're going to do a show for you guys. So please come hang out with us in Southern California. you. But first up, I've been wanting to get this guy on for a while to educate us on what's happening in Iran and the view from Iran. He's a writer and historian. He's a lecturer at Yale and contributing writer at the Atlantic. His books include what Iranians want, women, life, and freedom. He's an upcoming book as well on Israel and Iran. It's Arash Azizi. How you doing, man? I've been wanting to do this for a while. |
| 1:44.2 | Great. Great to be with you. Thanks for coming. We have a ton of news to talk about and then I want to do a little big picture stuff on Iran as well. But first for listeners, viewers who have not had the pleasure of following you on X or at the Atlantic. Could you give people a little first date? What's your backstory? |
| 1:45.9 | Just tell us about yourself a little bit. |
| 1:47.6 | So my name is Arash. |
| 1:48.7 | I'm from Iran. |
| 1:50.4 | I've been out of Iran now for about 18 years, but I'm from there originally. |
| 1:57.7 | Yeah, I'm a historian and I write about Middle East politics. And you're living in |
| 2:03.2 | New Haven now? I live in New York. I commute to New Haven to teach at the end. Okay. Okay, |
| 2:08.8 | smart. I was going to say, you've come to America. I don't want to, I don't want you to have to |
| 2:12.7 | suffer Connecticut full time. Hey, Connecticut has many little delights here and there, but yes. I want to go through |
| 2:19.6 | the state of play, and it's going to take a second, so bear with me, because a lot has happened |
| 2:24.1 | since yesterday's podcast and get your kind of reaction to where we are now. Last night, Trump |
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