Behind the knife, the Surgery Podcast, where we take a behind the scenes intimate look at

surgery from leaders in the field. So thank you everybody for sticking around. I'm looking forward to this next hour.

We're going to have a debate in the style of the monk debates which are put on in Toronto every year and some of you may have seen some of them.

The monk debate there's a pro and a con side and we have two people arguing each side.

And the resolution today is be it resolved

that I would not encourage my daughter or son to become a pediatric surgeon.

And we don't mean that literally your daughter or son.

We mean, would you encourage your best trainee?

Would you encourage somebody in the younger generation to follow in your footsteps as a pediatric surgeon.

We've got Dan Osley and Kathy Burn White taking the pro side and Doug Barnhart and Andrea Hayes Jordan taking the Khan side.

Okay, we're starting with with Kathy Bernwhite.

I'm near the end of a pretty spectacular career in pediatric surgery. But the storm clouds of trouble, which

were starting over our profession about 15 years ago, are now completely engulfing pediatric surgery to the point

would be very hard to encourage a youngster coming up in medicine to go into

pediatric surgery. I'm going to start the debate with three things, the burgeoning number of pediatric

surgeons, the inroads, other pediatric subspecials you are making into our line of

work and the training, the stress, the length, the uncertainty of matching.

In 1987, there were 22 programs.

Now there are upwards of 60 such that between 2015 and

2030 a mere 15 years the pediatric surgery workforce will increase by 45% and at the same time the number of index

cases is staying the same and in some entities actually dropping. So my daughter

wanting to go to general surgery and pediatric surgery and

...