So you can't tell just using, you know, what I would call the grandmother test. You know, would your grandmother understand this? Well, unless you're selling a grandmothers, it doesn't matter if the grandmother understands it. So some people will say, well, we need to dumb this down and we need to have it so that anybody understands it. I super disagree with that in B2B. If I'm selling a specialized thing to specialize buyers, it just needs to resonate with

them. It's okay if it doesn't resonate with your grandmother.

Welcome to the Knowledge Project.

I'm your host, Shane Parrish.

In a world where knowledge is power, this podcast is your toolkit for mastering the best of what other people have already figured out.

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notes for more information. My guest today is April Dunford. Her book, obviously awesome, totally changed how I think about positioning when it comes to business.

This interview originally aired as a member's only episode, but I had so many requests for members to share it with their team at work that I decided to make it public so everyone can benefit.

April is an expert in product positioning,

and this episode goes from high level to very detailed examples. We discuss the critical role

of positioning as a strategic approach, not just a marketing exercise, capable of totally

transforming a product's trajectory. April illustrates this with the example of labeling a muffin,

a muffin, and not a cake, demonstrating how effective positioning can shift perceptions and drive sales.

If you're interested in getting more sales, loyal customers, and bigger promotions,

this episode is for you. It's time to listen and learn.

I want to start with the basics.

What is positioning?

It's interesting.

So I'm a positioning expert.

And when I started out as a consultant being a positioning expert, the worst part about that is nobody really knows what positioning is. They think they do. So people will say, positioning, that's just like messaging. Isn't it? I'm like, actually, no, it's not quite that. Or they'll say positioning is like a tagline. We're coming up with the tagline. And I'm like, oh, gosh, no, there's a lot of things that we do that aren't tagline related. My personal pet peeve is when people talk about brand positioning. That drives me nuts. There is positioning and there's branding. Those two things

...