This kind of utopian impulse, let's call it that, we'll call it utopian impulse.

If we look back at it, it goes back, I mean, I think through recorded history.

If I can go back 2,500 years to ancient China, I think it's pretty fair to say that human beings,

I don't want to get into a human nature thing right now, right?

But there's a few things that are important to know about what

human beings have wanted all throughout history. I mean the most basic ones are food

shelter and clothing, right, and water water these are super important things that humans want

But on top of that of course we're also extremely social beings and we also unlike animals, are creative beings too.

We can create things.

And so the, this drive towards utopia

is a drive against the sort of toil and drudgery that exists,

that has existed in human life going all the way back

through all these different class societies

and something that it's fair to understand why somebody a thousand, two thousand, three thousand years ago

would not want to be going out into those fields, not wanting to be drawing that water,

not wanting to be you know ruled over by lords or aristocrats or whatever it is. I think that this drive

towards utopia comes out of real material conditions.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, as soon as you get to a world where people are putting seeds in the ground and other people are watching them do it, you're going to have the people who are having to do it go, yeah, this fucking sucks.

Because when you consider what goes into creating human sustenance,

it's not really a full or satisfying use of human consciousness.

Right.

And so that's going to leave people who are in a position where they have to do labor

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