I'm Alan Alder and this is Clear and Vivid. Conversations about connecting and communicating.

I don't like that old business about the characters tell me where to go because I think that

that makes writing into something magic. But that said, I go very, very far in and love

these people and these people inhabit them, realize that every person I write about is

some aspect of myself. One of the great things about doing this podcast is that I get to

talk with some of the most interesting people in the world all about my obsession. I think

you could say that at the heart of communication is empathy, the ability to take on the perspective

of another person. Novelists are especially good at this and I think there are few novelists

as good at it as Anne Patchett. She's my guest on this episode. I talked with Anne, the beloved

and award-winning writer at our studio in Manhattan. I wanted to talk to you a little bit about

empathy because it seems to me empathy is at the heart of communicating and relating. And you write

these amazingly engaging novels which fit right into the theory that a lot of people have about

empathy, that a good way to develop your empathy is to read novels. I agree with that. I say that

all the time because it really is putting you into someone else's skin in a way that nonfiction and history

doesn't always do. I think with fiction you have a more empathetic experience. It's almost like

acting. You're going into the character. You're going into the character's life when you're reading or when

you're writing. You have to, I imagine, you have to allow the reader to take on the perspective of

the character. Otherwise, not only is empathy not going to happen, they're not going to be very

interested in the story. Does that follow what you think? Well, the thing is you want the reader to have

empathy for many different characters, maybe even all the characters. So they're not necessarily going to be

getting into the point of view of all the characters. I don't know. There's an interesting way in which

empathy is also a real weakness of mine because I think that my biggest flaw as a writer is my inability to

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