In the middle of last year, we brought two well-known figures together to discuss the challenges

in understanding Anglo-Irish relations through the years. One, a former Tory cabinet minister,

the other, a professor of history at UCD. And we enjoyed that conversation so much that we've

decided to get the band back together again. So welcome back to Red Lines, Michael Portillo,

and dear Medferiter. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for having us.

Nice to see you both.

Michael, that previous conversation coincided with your television series Hawks and Doves,

which examined the British perspective on the Irish War of Independence.

So the point was made repeatedly in that podcast, that in terms of history, context is everything.

So here we are again today thinking about the state of Anglo-Irish relations in the here and now.

And that context of how we got to where we are is critical.

But there's a narrative out there that suggests relations between London and Dublin

are at their lowest point in decades.

Do you subscribe to that view?

No, I do not.

In fact, I'm rather surprised by that point of view.

I mean, I don't want to list all the times when relations have been poorer,

but they include times when I was in office and they include times before that, and I think

probably since that too. I mean, obviously, Brexit has thrown up a big challenge, and I dare say

that the government in Ireland and indeed politicians in Northern Ireland have their issues

dealing with Boris Johnson.

On the other hand, between the Republic and the United Kingdom, there surely is a strongly shared

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