Welcome listeners to its editor's desk, the regular First Things podcast from here in New York,

where I sit, Rusty Reno, editor of First Things,

I'm sitting at the editor's desk.

And I have with me, Andrew Bacevic, to talk about, initially to talk about a piece that he

wrote for us a number of years ago, maybe even two decades ago, about a book by Max Boot called The Savage

Wars of Peace.

And it's just a great jumping off point, I think, for us to talk about American foreign policy

and kind of where we've been in the last 20 years, which has been quite a adventure.

So welcome to the podcast.

Thank you very much.

You know, that, that was a, Max Boots been around.

I mean, it was really, he was a bright young thing when that book came out in 01.

I think it was just before 9-11.

I think it's about right, yes.

And you describe Max Boot as advocating a neo-imperial foreign policy.

And so what is a neo-imperial foreign policy?

And has Max Boot changed any of his basic outlook since 2002?

You probably want to ask Max, but I think so.

I believe Max's book came out pre-9-11 very much when confidence in American military power

and perhaps even confidence in the sort of ideological tendencies in forming history, when all that was at its height.

Neoconservatives were riding high.

And in retrospect, I would say, I was actually rather kind to Max

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