How can we stay open to ongoing learning and growth, even when we don't have all the answers? In this episode, we’re joined by CAC's Dean of Core Faculty, Brian McLaren. Together, we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Eager to Love with Chapter 6: “An Alternative Orthodoxy: Paying Attention to Different Things.” In this episode, we explore the concept of "alternative orthodoxy," examining how Franciscan spirituality, Richard Rohr's personal teachings, and the Christian contemplative tradition challenge conventional religious frameworks and invite us to pay attention to different things. Before Mike and Drew begin the conversation with Brian, Mike and Paul catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the sixth chapter of Eager to Love. Brian McLaren is the Dean of CAC Faculty. A former evangelical pastor, Brian D. McLaren is a champion for a more loving, inclusive and contemplative Christianity. A faculty member at the Center for Action and Contemplation, he teaches ways to reconnect with the message Jesus lived and died for—unconditional love. He is the author of Faith After Doubt, The Great Spiritual Migration, and host of CAC’s podcast Learning How to See. Hosted by CAC Staff: Mike Petrow, Paul Swanson, and Drew Jackson Resources: A PDF of the transcript for this episode can be found here. Grab a copy of Eager to Love here. To learn more about Brian McLaren, visit his website here.