Hello and welcome to the Americano podcast, a series of discussions about American politics and life.

My name is Freddie Gray. I'm the deputy editor of the spectator. I'm joined today by Jacob Heilbrun, who is editor of the national interest and a frequent

contributor to the Americano podcast. And we're going to be asking, why on earth is Nancy Pelosi

going to Taiwan? Jacob, let's start with that question. Why is, why on earth is Nancy Pelosi an 82-year-old woman,

the Speaker of the House of Representatives,

going to Taiwan today?

Well, Freddie, the elderly do like to travel,

especially in their dotage.

But I don't think that's why Pelosi is going to Taiwan and this Asian circuit.

The answer is actually pretty simple that she is from California and has always tried to prod China.

She has been an activist for decades in sounding the alarm about China, particularly

on its human rights practices. And don't forget, of course, California, there's a huge Asian

population there that is very interested in these issues. And Pelosi is more than happy to rile up the Chinese.

There were some footage the other day of her in Beijing,

a couple years after Tiananmen Square,

unfurling a banner denouncing the massacre that had taken place there. So I don't think this is new

territory for Nancy Pelosi. There's, there's been a lot of talk about how Biden's what Joe Biden

White House is uncomfortable with this trip, that they don't really approve on it. And they say

they, they don't have any authority over the con, over what the leader of Congress does in terms of

their travels. I mean, surely if the White House wanted to stop Pelosi going, they could have done it,

no? I suppose if they had said you absolutely should not go, then she would not have embarked

upon a visit to Taiwan. But to be to be honest, Freddie, I wonder if it

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