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slash verified. From Cafe, welcome to Stay Tuned. I'm Pete Barara. The reason why I think

Cass is such a useful term and understanding human interactions and the impulse to categorize

and then rank is that it has a potential to take, certainly Americans away from the

emotions get that get attached to race and racism. That's Isabelle Wilkerson. She's a

Pulitzer Prize winning author and her new book is Cast, The Origins of Our Discontents.

It's a powerful and profoundly timely meditation on the way that hierarchies form across the

sides, from the United States to India to Nazi Germany. Wilkerson has been at the forefront

of journalism and historical scholarship for three decades. Her 2010 book, The Warmth

of Other Sons, is a richly researched history of the great migration of African Americans

to the North during the first half of the 20th century and it's already a classic. Wilkerson

and I discuss the differences between race and caste, why the United States is like an

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