America's Biggest DEFEAT Since Vietnam? - Prof. Paul Rogers' GRIPPING Interview
The Owen Jones Podcast
Owen Jones
4.4 • 1.4K Ratings
🗓️ 20 April 2026
⏱️ 42 minutes
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Summary
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Just how catastrophic is the Iran war for US power. Of course, the US has been the global hegemon for a while. It's been the superpower since 1945, certainly, on a global scale. But the Iran war could be a turning point. Now, I've got a brilliant expert with me today. He's one of the preeminent experts we have on conflicts. |
| 0:22.7 | He's very embarrassed. I don't care. |
| 0:24.3 | I get to do the instructions and embarrass my guests. |
| 0:26.9 | He is, Paul Rogers, of course. |
| 0:28.6 | You will have seen his brilliant interviews that I've done with him. |
| 0:31.0 | In this war, during Israel's genocide, Russia's invasion of Ukraine. |
| 0:35.3 | He's the emeritus professor of peace studies at the University of Bradford |
| 0:39.2 | and has been studying wars obviously all his life. Paul, it's great to speak to him as ever. |
| 0:46.7 | How are you doing? I'm doing fine and thanks very much for listening to me again. It's such a mess we're |
| 0:51.8 | trying to sort out that you make sense of, that it's |
| 0:55.0 | worth the try, because as you say, I think we may be facing quite a game change as far as the |
| 0:59.5 | United States is concerned. Absolutely. And we spoke, people should check out the interview |
| 1:04.6 | that I did with Paul early on. Hundreds of thousands of people watch that interview for very good |
| 1:09.0 | reason. You'll see why if you didn't watch that. Should we just start? Okay, Israel and the US. Let's start with |
| 1:15.9 | them. Their war aims, if you like. Obviously, they launched this war. It was, and it is an illegal |
| 1:21.0 | war. Just that's not, you know, me doing editorial. Editorialize it, just a fact. Just explain |
| 1:26.7 | the war aims as it began back in February. |
| 1:30.8 | Well, let's start with the United States. You've got to go a little bit back from there because of |
| 1:34.8 | the very fractured relationship which the United States has had with Iran over the last half |
| 1:39.8 | century. Back in the 1950s and 1960s, Iran was really a very close state to the United States, |
| 1:48.7 | the regional ally, a key one in the Cold War context. When the revolution came in 79, |
| 1:55.5 | it was a huge shock to the American political system. What made it worse was the capture of a number of diplomats and their families. |
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