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We're really excited to be talking to two special guests actually.

Shusha Hader is a writer and musician who's writing up

here in places like Jacobin and in New York Times and he is a contributing editor at Viewpoint magazine.

Nick Murray is a former editor at the Village Voice and Rolling Stone and he is just came back from Charlottesville, Virginia.

Welcome.

Hey, thanks.

Thanks for talking to us.

So we're going to talk to you, Shusha, about a piece that you just wrote that's getting actually a lot of attention.

You wrote it at Jacobin and it's called,

One has to take sides. And the subtitle of of it the sub-header is many sides aren't promoting

racism and hatred one side is and ours is committed to stopping them.

So actually let's let's start with you Shoozhe. Yeah, so the title of the essay comes from a novel by Graham Green called The Quiet American.

It's about a guy in Vietnam who is a journalist who is kind of dedicated to remaining objective and not getting involved and it kind of displays how that kind of falls apart it leads to situations of

compromised morality and it's something that I was thinking about when when Trump made his

statement after the events in Charlottesville when he said something about how we saw

hatred and bigotry and violence on many sides.

We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides, on many sides.

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