Hi and welcome to the working songwriter. The show where today's best songwriters come to talk shop.

I'm your host, Joe Pug. Each episode here, we host a distinguished guest, and we ask them to go deep on their inspiration, on their process, on the general ups and downs of making a life in music.

So, whether you're a grizzled veteran, having your security detail beat up a heckler at your

stadium show or else a scrappy upstart, brawling with the person in the front row of your

club show who spilled a beer on your amplifier, this is your show, because ultimately,

it is what every writer seeks most, an ironclad excuse to put off actually writing.

Hey, everybody, it's the third Friday of June 2021, and I thank you for joining us.

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I'm old enough to remember when you had to pay somebody called a web developer to get a website made,

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