Allison Epstein's 'Fagin the Thief' gives a Charles Dickens character a second chance

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Arts, Books

4.2 • 671 Ratings

🗓️ 25 March 2025

⏱️ 10 minutes

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Summary

Author Allison Epstein says when she read Oliver Twist, she found Charles Dickens' portrayal of Fagin, the novel's central scoundrel, to be stereotypical and antisemitic. But there was also something about the character that piqued her curiosity. Now, her new novel Fagin the Thief gives that character a backstory – and a literary second chance. In today's episode, Epstein speaks with NPR's Scott Simon about her research into where someone like Fagin might've grown up, her reimagination of the character's intentions, and how she came to view Dickens as a working writer.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Hey, it's Empire's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbong. What counts as fan fiction versus what is a
0:08.7	literary reimagining? I thought about that question a lot, listening to today's interview.
0:13.6	It's with author Alison Epstein, whose new novel, Fagan the Thief, gives us a deeper understanding
0:19.0	of Fagan, the criminal ringleader in Charles
0:21.4	Dickens' novel Oliver Twist.
0:23.6	And in this interview with M.P.R. Scott Simon, Epstein talks about treating Dickens,
0:27.5	not like some sort of literary legend, but like a writer.
0:31.2	Of course, an extremely talented and hardworking one, but not somewhat immune to criticism.
0:37.2	She talks about turning Fagan from a caricature Dickens himself considered anti-Semitic
0:42.0	to a fully realized character.
0:45.1	After the break.
0:46.6	In the U.S., national security news can feel far away from daily life.
0:51.4	Distant wars, murky conflicts, diplomacy behind closed doors on our new show,
0:56.9	Sources and Methods. NPR reporters on the ground bring you stories of real people,
1:01.8	helping you understand why distant events matter here at home. Listen to sources and methods on the NPR
1:07.5	app or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:14.2	Sometimes there are second chances in literature.
1:21.0	Charles Dickens Fagan, the central scoundrel in his 1838 novel Oliver Twist, leads a crime ring that exploits hungry orphans to rob unsuspecting Londoners.
1:26.3	Svagan sings in Oliver the musical inspired by Oliver Twist.
1:30.3	In this life, one thing counts in the bank.
1:34.1	Large amounts.
1:35.7	I'm afraid these don't grow on trees.
	...

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