You're listening ad-free on Amazon music.

Just a reminder that Big M. Little Mood with Daniel M. Lavery happens twice a week.

Slate Plus members get an additional mini-episode or Little Big Mood every Friday.

Sign up now to listen at slate.com slash mood.

Music Hello and welcome back to Big Mood, Little Mood with Danny Lavery.

With me in the studio this week is John Darnel, a songwriter, novelist, and leader of the American band, The Mountain Goats.

Darken here is the group's just released latest collection of songs.

John, welcome.

Thank you so much for being here.

Hey, how's it going? It's going fantastic. I'm so sorry for our listeners, you're coming in at

the tail end of a great conversation about how the chair behind me looks like a big saltine,

which is just led to... It's like a headboard, I believe. Yeah, headboard, a shared interest in old-timey guys

sitting with barrels of saltines.

And of course, John, as I say this, I realize that must literally be where the expression

cracker barrel comes from, which is old guys with saltines in a barrel.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, or younger fellas with people of any stripe can enjoy the barrel full of crackers outside the door

of the establishment. No barrier, no barrier, as long as you can reach in. I always sort of felt

like saltines were under praised as, you know, everybody wants whatever is, you know, the sweetest

most sort of value for money snack. But like to me, I was like, now saltines are great. These are

like just the exact

right amount of like it's salt and plain starch and that's that's about right for me so and yeah i would

...