Brought to you by Penguin.

Hello and welcome to the Penguin podcast where we talk to writers about writing.

I'm Izzy Souti and today we're speaking to

Alan de Botton. An author and public speaker, Alain, was born in Switzerland and grew up speaking

French and German before moving to boarding school in England, going on to study at

Cambridge University, then King's College and finally Harvard. His books which include essays in love, how Proust can

change your life and religion for atheists are bestsellers in over 30 countries and have been

described as a philosophy on everyday life. He is also the founder of the School of Life. His latest book,

a therapeutic journey, deals with mental ill health and

recuperation and has been described as both a source of companionship in our loneliest moments

and a practical guide that will help us to find reasons for hope. And now welcome to the Penguin

podcast. Thank you so much. You're very welcome. I've just finished this book, as I said,

it's such a patient and compassionate book. Its points are illustrated with very carefully chosen

works of art. And I found it encouraging and a truly forgiving book. It doesn't shy away from the fact

that living involves a degree of melancholy and

pain and in fact draws us towards those two things. And actually, while I was reading it,

I think it was two days ago, I'd been reading it in a cafe and I was walking home and I saw

an elderly man had fallen over and cut his head and there was a group of people around him,

and one of them was ringing an ambulance. And as I watched, a car pulled up on double yellow lines and a man

rushed out looking really purposeful. I kind of was going to help. And it struck me that it's,

when someone has a physical ailment, it can be a bit more straightforward. It was like these people

felt so purposeful. The guy getting out of the car was almost like, I'm pulling up and I'm getting

...