These tools exist, right? You know, cloud code and codex and all these amazing tools are all out there now.

And so many people, I think, make this hand-wavy argument. They're like, well, now that these things are there, every single software company is going to get disrupted. Everything's going to go to zero. There's going to be infinite competition. It's like, no, mother-huffer. That's not how it works. Somebody has to actually do the disrupting. Is it legacy companies?

Do you think PayPal is going to be spinning up a bunch of crazy vibe coders with 16 tabs and

like launching a bunch of products?

No, it's the startups that are going to be doing that.

It's the people who are living on the frontier.

It's the crazy kids who have four Claude Mac subscriptions who are, you know, have 16 terminals

up with all these agents running simultaneously. These are the guys who are you know have 16 terminals up with all these agents running

simultaneously these are the guys who are doing it this episode is brought to you by

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Nothing said on The Breakdown is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only and any views expressed by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. Host and guests may hold positions in the company's funds or projects discussed. Welcome to The Breakdown. I'm your host, David Canellis. The following conversation expands on a recent episode all about venture capital in crypto and how token prices reflect traditional valuation fundamentals only some of the time. For the best experience, be sure to go back and catch that episode if you missed it and don't forget to hit like and subscribe so you don't miss anymore. And with that out of the way, let's start the show. With me is my very special guest, Haseeb Qureshi, managing partner at Dragonfly Capital. Welcome. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me, David. Cool. So yeah, I mean, the topic that we're kind of unpacking is tokens and valuations and how to value these things as they roll out and as kind of clarity is moving through Congress and kind of out the other side.

And basically where I get stuck is that there are tokens going to be rolling out. We know that as much. Like we can't

stop projects from launching tokens, but it's, and it's inevitable that those tokens are going to be

tied to not even only pre-revenue networks or protocols or what have you, but also it would be

very low revenue tokens that are moving in to attract

more revenue in the future. At what point do we start to think that, you know, there is an

overlap here between investing in early stage companies and early stage protocols, because it does rely on a team executing, but you're

not directly investing in that team.

You're investing in the network that they're building.

And then you have to go and understand how user modes work and how user retention works

in these protocols.

So I feel like that there's two things happening at once.

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