Welcome back to the Sydney Journal podcast. I'm your host, Charles Fain Lehman, a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and senior editor of City Journal.

Joining me on our panel today are Hannah Myers, directors of all things public safety at the Manhattan Institute, Dan DiMartino, Immigration Guy at the Manhattan Institute, and Eli Shapiro, Constitution Guy at the Manhattan Institute.

We're going to jump right into the news, and specifically we're going to dip into the story of Kilmar-Obrego-Garcia, the Salvadoran man slash Maryland father-slash-domestic abuse, alleged committee may or may not have been in MS-13.

Individual was deported by the Trump administration, possibly accidentally, to El Salvador.

Abrager Garcia's case has become sort of a cause-celeb with those on the right, seeing him

as an example of the person that we really want to get rid of, and those on the left, seeing

his case as an obvious and substantial deprivation of due process. There's some really

live and interesting issues here, so I want to get right into it.

Ilya, there's been a great deal back and forth at the Supreme Court, and then the court's

generally over a Brigger Garcia's case.

What do you see as the state of play?

And, you know, who do you think has the better argument, the administration or their critics?

Yeah, so the – let's work backwards counterintuitively. What the Supreme Court said was it affirmed the lower court ruling against the administration, but asked it to clarify what facilitate means.

That is, the government is ordered to facilitate Garcia's

return. What does that mean? The government's lawyers have represented, Pam Bondi, the attorney

general, has said that a plane is ready to go. We're removing all domestic impediments to his return.

Is that good enough? It's unclear, actually. It's unclear whether a federal court has the

authority, for example, to tell the president, even deferentially, do whatever you think is right

to diplomatically get the exchange, get Garcia back. Ask Buckelly, the president of El Salvador to get him

back, or whatever other channels, I'm not telling you how to use your foreign affairs power,

but facilitate his return. Again, it's, there's just not really law on this on whether the

district court's jurisdiction extends to that. And that is where the legal fight is going on.

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