This is the Reason interview with Nick Gillespie. Thanks for listening. This is also the audio

version of a video live stream that takes place every Thursday at 1 p.m. Eastern time. Go to reason.com

to check that out in real time or to our YouTube channel, YouTube.com slash reason TV.

So it's back to school season and for some parts of the country that means dealing with

COVID restrictions again.

Americans are no longer experiencing indefinite school closures or ubiquitous masking,

but intermittent school closures, temporary mask mandates, and COVID vaccine

requirements persist. Will it ever end, or are we in the new abnormal? To examine these questions,

reason Zach Weissmuller and Liz Wolfe spoke with Aaron Carriotti, a psychiatrist who was

fired from UC Irvine for refusing to get vaccinated.

He's now a fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, and he wrote a book called The New Abnormal, the Rise of the Biomedical Security State, in which he argues that the authoritarian measures implemented during the pandemic are

sure to linger and reshape American society for the worst, absent concerted and organized

political pushback. Zach and Liz discussed this firing at length, surveyed the landscape of

remaining COVID restrictions across America, reacted to clips of both

Ron DeSantis and Gavin Newsom reflecting on their governance through the emergency and talked about

policies that can best help us escape the new abnormal.

Here is the reason interview with Aaron Carriotti.

Aaron Carriotti, thank you for talking to us.

Thanks, Zach.

Great to be with you and Liz.

We're going to.

Yeah, we're super excited to that with you.

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