Aaron Friedberg on the Trump Administration's Surprising China Policy

Conversations with Bill Kristol

News, Society & Culture, Government, Politics

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🗓️ 11 September 2025

⏱️ 80 minutes

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Summary

The second Trump administration’s approach to China so far differs from the more consistently hawkish posture of the first term. To analyze the increasingly dangerous state of our geopolitical situation and the threat posed by China, we are joined again by Princeton professor Aaron Friedberg. According to Friedberg, China continues to strengthen in military, technological, and geopolitical might as it continues to advance its ties to Russia and North Korea. Meanwhile, in Washington, the position seems to be emerging that the US can make a deal with China, as well as draw back from American positions in Europe and elsewhere. As Friedberg puts it, this policy would leave American allies in Europe and Asia more vulnerable to China and Russia—countries that have their own differences but are united by an “ideology that’s anti-Western, anti-liberal, anti-democratic. And that’s a pretty powerful force.” Friedberg argues that the various and growing threats to the US and the world order remain ever more interconnected. To counter these threats, the US must increase engagement around the world and strengthen collaboration with allies—rather than “making deals” with adversaries while retreating from global commitments.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hi, I'm Bill Crystal. Welcome back to conversations. I'm very pleased to be joined again today by Aaron Friedberg,
0:22.3	Professor of Politics at Princeton,
0:24.4	a scholar of foreign policy and national security policy,
0:28.3	serving the U.S. government as well, expert on China in particular.
0:32.6	I think your most recent book is Getting China Wrong,
0:36.3	but Aaron has been getting China right, actually.
0:38.2	This is a critique of his colleagues who've been getting it right. You really have been getting it
0:41.5	right, though. And if people go back and look at these conversations, I think you'd be
0:45.4	vindicated in your earlier work, obviously, but also with things you've been saying over the last
0:50.6	several years. So, Aaron, thanks for joining me again. Thank you very much, Bill. It's a pleasure. So where do we stand? I mean, the last time China was in the news for those of us who don't, you know, are experts at all, was the grand military parade that Xi Jinping hosted with Putin and Kim Jong-un and Modi showed up the day before to, you know, from India to show, I don't know what to show.
1:12.6	You can tell me what to show.
1:14.0	Anyway, I think it was just a moment and it didn't feel like it particularly, well, felt like a demonstration of strength by China.
1:21.2	But are they strong?
1:24.2	What does what to take from Nussians to that parade, obviously, but from everything that's,
1:28.4	what is their current state in the world?
1:31.2	Well, it certainly is intended as a display of strength.
1:35.2	And it was quite a remarkable display of military capabilities.
1:39.8	And maybe we can talk a little bit about that.
1:42.0	Apparently, there are some new things that hadn't been shown before.
1:46.4	Well, say a word about that because that's, I mean, people like me just thought, well, symbolically interesting, but it actually was real in that sense?
1:53.0	Well, yes, I think there, evidently there were some, I believe it over a dozen, might have been 14 systems that were thought to be new,
2:03.0	not all of them necessarily operational. I don't know if some of them are, you know, foam rubber,
	...

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