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I'm not coming out and saying that it's ET material or anything like that. I don't know. All I know is that these very

credentials people have used the best equipment they know in the world to look at these things and it's a conundrum to them.

Hello and welcome to the Azerbaijan show on the Vox Media podcast network. The truth is in here.

You may have been following. I hope you're following the New York Times's recent UFO reporting.

These videos of the Navy confirms are real of pilot seeing and marveling over craft they can't explain.

These programs had former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid confirmed a real in which the military was trying to investigate what was being seen and physically what was being found.

It's weird. It is weird. And I've been wanting to explore this on the show because I believe that there's a high probability that the length and frequency and consistency of reports of events like these

it points towards something something important be it in the human brain or in the world we inhabit.

Even as I think there's a pretty low probability that we really know what the actual explanation or explanations are.

And so I wanted to have a conversation about this that could sit in that uncertainty that could be humble rather than conspiratorial because conspiratorial just like

reflexively skeptical those are both ways of grasping for a certain D that I don't think we have gained yet that I don't think we deserve yet.

I want to have a conversation here that whatever you believe that UFOs it could illuminate something about our world just as it normally exists, which is why I wanted to have Diana Walsh Pesilka on the show.

She is a professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina Wilmington, a chair of the Department of Philosophy and Religion there and she wrote this amazing book a couple years back called American Cosmic UFOs, technology and religion.

And in it she embeds in the world of UFO research and she tries to understand it as a form of religious belief and as a scholar of religion somebody trained to do that.

Some do came to this from that direction that means not asking if it's true or false. It means asking what it means, how it operates, what it does to society, what it builds upon is already there in society.

And the results of that book are revelatory and I think they help us either interpret or possibly to not interpret some of what is being reported and see now.

Both in terms of the theory she ends up with here, but also in terms of the things she sees and learns it all acts for her, she says as an epistemic shock to what she thought she knew about the world and I hope it does that for the rest of us too.

Something you'll notice on not just this episode but on the show is I take a delight in things that cannot be explained.

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