A Sense-Making Odyssey, Part 1: Jordan Peterson, John Vervaeke & Jordan Hall

Decoding the Gurus

Christopher Kavanagh and Matthew Browne

Science, Leisure, Social Sciences, Society & Culture

4.2 • 1.1K Ratings

🗓️ 11 September 2025

⏱️ 135 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Join Matt and Chris as they enter an intellectual labyrinth of recursive sensemaking featuring the combined insights of Jordan Peterson, John Vervaeke, and Jordan Hall. You will learn about many, many deep and complex concepts and puzzle over definitions of conscience, the vertical hierarchy, value, normativity, goals & ideals, quests, the ultimate unifying meta-narrative, self-sacrifice, and touchstones.

With frequent excursions into a wild assortment of biblical stories, Platonic philosophy, Jungian psychology, Martial Art stances, and much, much more! This is a voyage through the refracted and refracting philosophical frameworks of three contemporary sensemaking powerhouses.

So get your oars ready and prepare your mind to taste the Dialogos, vis-à-vis Moses...

Sources

A Dialogue So Dangerous, It Just Might Bring You Wisdom | John Vervaeke and Jordan Hall | EP 532

Transcript

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0:00.0	Thank you.
0:01.0	I'm All right, all right, all right.
0:29.0	Hello, welcome to the Cody and the Gurus podcast.
0:31.9	We're an anthropologist and the psychologist, listen to the greatest minds the world has to offer.
0:37.1	And we try to understand what they're talking about.
0:38.9	Never has our introductory spielchristin more apropos than today, may I say.
0:45.0	So I'm Matt Brown.
0:46.5	With me is the monkey magic to my Tripitaka, the bad boy of the podcast scene, Chris Kavanaugh.
0:54.5	Did you make a burtress reference, like the Tripataka?
0:58.0	Tripitaka, monkey magic.
1:01.0	Tripitaka.
1:02.4	Tripitaka.
1:03.0	Tripitaka. I thought it was the Tripodica, but what do I know?
1:06.0	I don't know. Maybe that's, well, like, um, yeah, what do you know?
1:09.9	That's not Buddhist, ma. I could be right. I could be right. Yes, monkey magic is based on a Buddhist scrolls or something. I don't know. Yeah. My knowledge. Journey to the West. Journey to the West. Yeah. I did read a book, Chris. So, I mean, I watched the TV show. You have? What? Hold on my, hold on. Hold on.
1:33.9	Okay. First of all, let's be clear. My reference there is to the children's TV show. There was a very popular export from Japan to Australia. Very popular over here. I had a big influence on me.
1:40.7	But then, like as a teenager, I somehow was given or came across a big, thick book,
1:48.0	and it was in English. And I feel like it kind of was Journey to the West. It had, it had
1:54.2	legends about a monkey in it being hatched from an egg and stuff. It was, it was kind of weird.
1:58.3	Was it like a pig guy doing stuff? I think so. I think so.
2:01.4	Sounds like the journey to the West.
2:03.8	Yeah.
	...

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