I was just ecstatic. I mean it was wonderful. As soon as I got back to civilization I

emailed all my friends I said you know we have to come back down here we all have to come

they're all experienced with psychodelics but said, but we're all getting old.

This was my sales pitch to my friends.

I said, my joints have been lubricated,

you know, like the Tin Man and the Wizard of Oz.

I said, this is the fountain of youth. I felt so much more alive and flexible and

certainly physically more alive and flexible but also I didn't realize that there

was a heaviness that I was holding with my father's death and that

this lightened and opened it in a way that has stayed with me.

This is almost 20 years ago this happened and it's very alive in me and it shifted my whole

relationship to death and dying.

So psychedelics have become a popular topic of conversation with people, not just exploring consciousness and deepening relationships, but also those researching and exploring how these different substances might impact everything from anxiety to

depression to PTSD and beyond.

Still there is so much hype out there.

We've talked to some leading researchers in the past like Adam Gazali at UCSF and actually

we have an episode in the works with a leading voice from the practitioner side and the science

based side who's helping push forward policy and legislation.

But today we're taking a look at another side of this world, what's become known as

the psychedelic underground. So my guest today is Rachel Harris, PhD, author of the book

Swimming in the Sacred, Wisdom from the psychedelic underground. Now Rachel is a

psychologist who spent over 40 years in private practice and 10 more in academia

...