For all the episodes of a bit of optimism, I've talked to people I know or people whose work I'm familiar with.

Andy Grammer is the exception.

I think I might be getting old because I have to admit I didn't know his work.

A mutual friend of ours said we had to meet and that we would get along. I trust my friend

and so I invited Andy to join me on the podcast and my friend was right. Andy is

wonderful and we got along so well.

He's such an amazing optimist, but he comes at optimism from a completely different angle.

His starts with pain and I found it absolutely fascinating.

This isn't a bit of optimism.

This is a lot of optimism.

So I have to ask what was the reason you wanted to do this?

Well, you know, I'm a super optimist and I run around the country and sing songs and I've had songs on the radio and it's a big piece of my life also I'm just like a huge fan of you I'm a really big fan of all of your books and so I'm like oh man I got to talk to that guy because I think we have a lot of similar

thoughts on life and how to bring an optimism that isn't just airy fairy that's like oh

everything's good because it's good. I like to talk about a grounded

optimism and sing about it, and I think that's similar to what you're about.

How do you define optimism? To me I think optimism is the genuine belief that

whatever happens to you makes you better. If you truly believe that anything good

that happens to you makes you better and then the bad stuff is there to make you better, I think you were inherently an optimist in like a true way that's grounded.

Tell me more about that.

I had a song come out called Wish You Payne, which was a little bit tough to pitch to radio,

but we tried.

It was like an aggressive title.

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