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I'm your host, Connor Eccles.

Each week, I break down the latest developments in U.S. foreign policy and other global news,

and I interview a leading expert or activist.

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Hey, Nason, how you doing?

Hey, how are you? Good to see you.

Very good. Why don't I go ahead and introduce us? So I am Connor Eccles, the managing editor of Non Zero and the host of this, which is Non Zero World, the weekend edition of the Non Zero podcast. And you are Nassan Mahbubi, the director of the pen project on the future of U.S.-China Relations and a prominent legal scholar focused in many ways on Chinese, I believe, administrative law.

That's right.

And I'm very excited to have you on today because you've been doing this really interesting

series of trips this summer that I just want to hear everything about that I think our audience

want to hear,

which is that you've been bringing a bunch of students. I gather mostly from the University of

Pennsylvania, but perhaps from other places as well, to China for a couple of weeks at a time

in order to give them opportunities for dialogue with Chinese officials and scholars and other people

living there. And obviously at a time of intense

division between the U.S. and China, it's such a interesting project. And so I guess a place to

get started would just be if you could talk about what exactly these trips are, what types of

students are going and just your kind of basic experience.

Sure. No, I'm happy to talk about it.

In fact, it's one big trip.

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