A Former Spy Explains How AI is Changing Espionage
The Michael Shermer Show
Michael Shermer
4.3 • 1K Ratings
🗓️ 4 November 2025
⏱️ 69 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
A former senior intelligence officer explains how espionage is evolving in the age of AI and amid rising global tensions with China, and why the mass harvesting of data affects not just nation-states, but all of us.
The discussion also explores the history of spying, what life is really like for intelligence officers, and major intelligence failures and scandals, including 9/11 and Edward Snowden's unauthorized disclosures about the NSA.
Anthony Vinci served as the first Chief Technology Officer at the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA). Earlier in his career he served in Iraq, Africa, and Asia. He is an Adjunct Senior Fellow at the Center for a New American Security (CNAS) and received his PhD in International Relations from the London School of Economics. His new book is The Fourth Intelligence Revolution: The Future of Espionage and the Battle to Save America.
Transcript
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| 1:04.9 | You're listening to The Michael Shermer Show. |
| 1:10.1 | The Michael Shermer Show. |
| 1:18.9 | Hey, everybody, it's Michael Shermer. It's time for another episode of the Michael Shermer show. |
| 1:21.3 | My guest today is Anthony Vinci, who served as the first chief technology officer at the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, NGA. |
| 1:31.7 | Earlier in his career, he served in Iraq, Africa, and Asia. |
| 1:35.7 | After leaving the world of intelligence, then she became an executive at a private equity firm and CEO of an AI company. |
| 1:43.5 | He's an adjunct senior fellow at the center for a new American security, CNAS, and received his |
| 1:49.3 | PhD in international relations from the London School of Economics. |
| 1:53.6 | Here's the new book, The Fourth Intelligence Revolution, the future of espionage and the |
| 1:59.8 | battle to save America. Anthony, nice to see you. |
| 2:02.7 | Are you a spy? Or are you once a spy? How would you describe yourself? Thank you. And thanks for |
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