This is Amicus Slate's podcast about the Supreme Court, the courts, the law, and the rule of law.

I'm Dahlia Lithwick.

I write about those things, and I'm a senior editor here at Slate.

We're working on this week's episode, centering on the Ruth Bader Ginsburg-shaped hole that has appeared

in American life for so many of us.

But while we work on that, we wanted to re-up a bonus episode that we released last Thanksgiving.

This is a conversation I had with National Constitution Center President Jeff Rosen at the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia.

Back in November of 2019, it was to mark the release of Jeff's terrific book, Conversations with Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

The book's an informal portrait of the justice

that he had painted by drawing on his conversations with her

dating back to the 1990s.

My conversation with Jeff was also informal

and it was actually pretty joyful at the time

and still very, very comforting now.

All right. Well, thank you all for coming out. This is kind of a groupy thing,

wherein Jeff Rosen and Dahlia Lithwick get to see who's the bigger Ruth Bader Ginsburg

groupie and you get to watch.

But that's essentially it's just a pleasure to be here helping Jeff spread word about this

really, really beautiful book. And Jeff, I think I want to start at the very

beginning and just ask you to describe how you first got to know Ruth Bader Ginsburg. So it was

1991, and I was a law clerk on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. circuit.

And I was in an elevator.

...