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Critics at Large | The New Yorker

A Controversial Trump Bio-pic and the Villains We Make

Critics at Large | The New Yorker

The New Yorker

Society & Culture

4.4679 Ratings

🗓️ 10 October 2024

⏱️ 53 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

“The Apprentice,” a new film directed by Ali Abbasi, depicts the rise of a young Donald Trump under the wing of the notorious lawyer Roy Cohn. The film is, in many ways, an origin story for a man who has overtaken contemporary politics. On this episode of Critics at Large, Vinson Cunningham, Naomi Fry, and Alexandra Schwartz discuss the movie and other works that explore Trump’s and Cohn’s psychologies, from duelling family memoirs to documentaries. The sheer number of such texts raises the question: Why are we so interested in the backstories of people who have done wrong, and what do we stand to gain (or lose) by humanizing them? “Do we want to see our villains, our absolute villains—people who have caused much harm to the world—as weak little boys who’ve undergone trauma and have had their reasons for becoming the monsters they later turn into?” Fry asks. “Or do we not?”


Read, watch, and listen with the critics:



“The Apprentice” (2024)
Who Could Ever Love You: A Family Memoir,” by Mary Trump
All in the Family: The Trumps and How We Got This Way,” by Fred C. Trump III
“Where’s My Roy Cohn?” (2019)
Roy Cohn and the Making of a Winner-Take-All America,” by Naomi Fry (The New Yorker)
“Angels in America” (2003)
“Joker” (2019)
“Wicked” (2024)
“Ratched” (2020)
“Elephant” (2003)
“Cruella” (2021)
“The Sopranos” (1991-2007)
“Mad Men” (2007-15)
The “Harry Potter” novels, by J. K. Rowling
Paradise Lost,” by John Milton
Be Ready When the Luck Happens,” by Ina Garten


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Transcript

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0:00.0

Welcome to Critics at Large, a podcast from The New Yorker.

0:09.4

I'm Nomi Fry.

0:10.5

I'm Vincent Cunningham.

0:11.5

And I'm Alex Schwartz.

0:13.0

Each week on this show, we make sense of what's happening in the culture right now and how we got here.

0:23.5

So, critics, listeners,

0:30.5

once upon a time, there was a young man born in Queens, New York.

0:31.4

Yes.

0:35.0

To a father who had invested in the real estate business and had developed a number of buildings and had a number of tenants.

0:39.7

This father's ambitions stretched from Queens to Brooklyn, but not the sons, for he wished

0:45.5

to conquer the gleaming aisle of Manhattan.

0:51.4

How did I do?

0:52.6

You did great. Thank you. I wonder who this man could be. Could you even tell? You did great.

0:54.2

Thank you.

0:54.9

I wonder who this man could be.

0:56.2

Could you even tell?

0:57.2

You didn't mention his golden pompadour.

1:00.7

That's true.

1:02.2

There are many other things to say

1:03.4

his increasingly complicated, brogue in way of speech.

1:06.9

There are many things to say about the person we were speaking of,

1:08.6

who, if you haven't guessed, is Donald Trump.

...

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