I'm an entrepreneur and I believe in winning.

I've never signed up for anything to say I want to be number two.

That's not an American culture where you sign up and want to be third place.

The goal is to win.

And in that space, wanting to be the ultimate winner, the toughest, most feared guy on the planet is a gang leader who runs the entire prison system, the ultimate shot caller. That's the number one guy. In politics, it's the president. It's not the governor. The number one politician is the president. The number one person in the penitentiary is a shot caller. The shock caller, not a shot caller. And I was like, I want to be the shot caller. And that was the goal.

I want to be the top of the list. And I went on that quest and I made it from number 20,000

to number three. Then I had an opportunity to become number one. That's Andre Norman, best-selling

author of Ambassador of Hope. It came clear that I was about to become the king of nowhere.

Boom, I'm about to become the king of nowhere. And I don't want to be the king of nowhere. I backed up, I went to myself. I said, well, if I can't be a psychopath, what's the point of being in prison? It didn't make sense. Prison always made sense to me. That's why I was 100% all in, because I could rationalize it in my brain that this makes sense.

I got this goal of being the number one guy.

That goal is now gone.

I'm Michael Mogul, founder and CEO of Crisp, the nation's number one law from growth company.

I've built my business

through practice, not theory. Crisp started with just $500 to my name and has grown to over

eight figures in revenue over the last few years, earning a spot on the Inc. 500 list of the fastest

growing private companies in America. Our approach has been to take everything we've learned about

generating massive growth within our own organization and help the country's most ambitious and committed law firm owners do the same for theirs.

In each episode of this podcast, I sit down with innovative market leaders from the legal industry and beyond to learn from those who thrive in the face of adversity, challenge the status quo, and define what it means to be a true game changer.

I sat down with Andre Norman to discuss the impact of our environment on our outcomes,

what it means to live a purpose-driven life, and why our past does not have to dictate our future.

There are some good in everybody, there's some bad in everybody.

I sat with Michael Brown Sr. His son died.

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