From APM, American Public Media, and WNYC,

this is Freakonomics Radio on Marketplace.

Here's the host of Marketplace, Kyriz Doll.

Time now for a little Freakonomics radio.

It's that moment every couple of weeks we talk to Stephen Dubner,

the co-author of the books and the blog of the same name.

It is the hidden side of everything.

Dubner, it's good to have you back.

Kyriz Doll, thank you for having me back.

I know we're all excited about the second presidential

bait last night, yes?

It was a good one, but don't you think?

Interesting.

It was a lot of, I thought,

scintillating talk about taxation in particular.

You need to get out more.

Okay.

Turn you.

It did get me to thinking, however, about lying.

Now, I don't mean the lying of the sort that each campaign

is accusing the other of doing every two seconds.

I mean, Ky, lying to ourselves.

...