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everything secure. What attracted me to white nationalism when I encountered it as a 16-year-old

drunken punk rocker was that just, it's so repulsed civil society.

It just seemed like my whole life I was looking for the best way to piss people off.

What is the journey to a world of hate?

And once you're deep in the lifestyle, is there a journey out of it?

Our guest today is Arno McAulis, who spent seven years in the white nationalist

movement before ultimately leaving and becoming an advocate for peace. And he has a lot to say

about what really works when it comes to violent extremism and hate-fueled racism.

And what doesn't work?

I know from experience that no one was ever going to beat the Nazi out of me.

Like our society now is like, well, we need to punish racists.

We need to silence them.

We need to reject them.

We need to ostracize them as if we can, you know, make them suffer more, we'll make them less hateful and violent, which I don't agree with whatsoever.

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