This is popular front, a podcast focused on the niche details of modern warfare and

underreported conflict with me Jake Hanrahan.

For this episode we're speaking to Wim Zwiningberg.

He's a researcher, run things, all sorts of stuff at Pacts for Peace.

He's a really good guy. His work is excellent and sorts of

stuff at Pacts for Peace. He's a really good guy. His work is excellent and today he's

going to be speaking to us about the rise of drone warfare and the way that

governments all over the world are making it easier to kill people from

the skies and how that is affecting war diplomacy all sorts is a really interesting

episode.

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slash Popular Front.

You got this new report outright which from what I can tell from what I've read of it it's

basically arguing that like drone warfare is kind of going out of control right

tell us about that yeah so we've been trying to

trying to understand how the rise of drone production and proliferation is

changing warfare. So we've been working on this at Bex for the last 10 years, like we started off in 2010, like exploring sort of the field of drone technology back then, you know, swarms were already being discussed, artificial intelligence, etc.

So then sort of, you know, took off with the drone killings program under Obama since 2008.

And all of these organizations who have since then started working on it,

like human rights organizations in the West,

but also from Pakistan and from Yemen has been saying like okay this is you

...