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Hey, where. Welcome to the Other People podcast, a weekly program featuring in-depth interviews with

today's leading writers. My name is Brad Listy. I'm in Los Angeles. It's good to be with you. I appreciate

you tuning in. Don't forget to subscribe to this program wherever you listen. You can also subscribe on YouTube, follow the show on social media, TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, and Blue Sky.

So my guest today is Max Porter, author of a novel called Shy.

The diagnostic language or the language of a recovery from certain mental states back to a

place of normality or what does that mean fit for purpose for the social

or economic activities of well-adjusted you know 21st century life that isn't something that

means anything to the unhappy teenager nor did it nor does it really mean anything to me in terms of what is interesting about the human mind.

I reject it as a mode of obedience.

I think that the interesting action is happening where the path doesn't tread in that regard.

But I also think that there is a thing about that every generation does, which is, and I think we're particularly guilty of it now with millennials,

some of the language that the kind of boomer generation has around millennials and their mental

health struggles is deeply patronising and suggests that the kind of provocations of youth culture

or, you know, yet again, we're writing it off as not valid according to our established ones.

And I wanted Shai to be not sophisticated in his formulation of resistance against that,

but more a kind of belch, a kind of physical, or scatological, almost, almost a kind of vomiting

or shitting of the body.

...