I'm not pulling the driveway. We all know what that means. It's time for other drive to work. At Home Edition.

So, as I explained in a previous podcast, we are now hybrid in the office half the week and at home half the week.

And so all my solo podcasts will be, I think, be in the car. But I like to do interviews and I can't do interviews in the car.

It's hard to do interviews in the car. But I'm going to continue to do interviews at my house. So today, I have

Matt Place to join us. Hey, Mark. Okay, so I've had people on to talk about sets we've done

together. In fact, Matt and I have talked about stuff we've done together. But today, we're going to

talk about something a little larger, talking about a concept that Matt and I have talked about stuff we've done together. But today, we're going to talk about something a little larger, talking about a concept that Matt and I were sort of the co-parents of, I guess.

So we're going to talk about New World Order, which is something that Matt and I sort of created and has become...

Anyway, we're going to talk all about what New World is, how we came up with it, and what it means to magic. So, Matt, why don't you begin, I've told the story, but you've never told the story. So why don't you go back to the very beginning? What is your version of how New World Order began? So first of all, you have a better memory than Mark. So you'll probably add a lot to

this. But the big impetus, what was happening at the time, this is what, 2008, 2009 space,

working on Alara was the set we were currently focused on and freshen our minds with some of the

quote-unquote mistakes that we had made during the time spiral block, right?

And just how complex and how too much text and just confusing cards that weren't adding value,

weren't adding fun and depth to the game.

And so we said, hey, let's kind of do a reset here.

Let's look at that and figure out what's we, what's a good philosophy to share with

ourselves, to convince ourselves of, and to share with the rest of the team going forward to make

hopefully magic just as fun as it is without those pitfalls, without, you know, people being like,

hey, I'm not here with this car that has two mechanics I've never seen before. And they're introduced

in this set, thinking future site, and confusing people in a way that doesn't have upside, right?

And one of the big pieces to this is adding complexity often does add depth.

But can you add depth without adding complexity?

...