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The Times Tech Podcast

89up's Mike Harris: "Hiding in plain sight"

The Times Tech Podcast

Will Morley

Business, Unknown, Technology

4.9654 Ratings

🗓️ 26 October 2018

⏱️ 26 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The Sunday Times’ tech correspondent brings on Mike Harris, founder of 89up, to talk about his work uncovering Russia’s election meddling in Brexit (2:25), the importance of Facebook groups in spreading misinformation (4:10), making an enemy of Russia (7:00), the government’s impending ‘fake news’ report (8:10), the “Mainstream Network” (9:20), Facebook’s complicity in anonymity (14:15), the problem with the master algorithm (17:30), how to fix it (19:45), and the business of chaos (22:35)

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Transcript

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0:00.0

Yeah, technology.

0:02.0

What is it all about?

0:04.0

Facebook can say we're not going to allow people to influence elections,

0:08.0

but what about genuinely influencing the culture of countries?

0:11.0

Because by doing that, you are actually trying to influence culture,

0:15.0

by influencing culture, you're influencing politics.

0:18.0

So Facebook's remit for fake news has to be far wider than attempts to

0:22.6

ultra-elections.

0:28.8

Hello and welcome to Danny in the Valley. This is your bonus episode for the week. So we have

0:35.0

brought on Mike Harris for the show and Mike is the founder of 89 Up,

0:40.8

which is a communications agency in London that is up to all kinds of interesting stuff,

0:45.4

including tracking what Russia and other bad guys are up to on the internet.

0:50.7

Now, I interviewed Mike because this week, 89 up published some really interesting research,

0:55.5

and what they did is they focused in on one website, single website,

0:59.9

which has an anonymous owner, anonymous staff, unlocatable head office.

1:05.5

He had somehow, through the magic of social media, reached more than 10 million Brits,

1:13.4

with a very strong pro-Brexit,

1:17.1

anti-remain message, news articles, etc.

1:22.7

And what's so interesting here is that this was just days after Facebook unveiled its latest crackdown on political ads.

1:25.1

So putting in all these kind of guardrails like requiring anybody who

1:28.9

plays a political ad to reveal their identity, a valid UK address, how much they paid, etc.

1:37.0

And this website, mainstream network, as it's called, seems to be very much the type of operation that Facebook would be trying to stamp out.

...

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