I'm not pulling my driveway. We all know what that means. It's time for the drive to work, coronavirus edition.

So using my time at home to do interviews with people past and present, and I have someone today that is both past and present.

I have Bill Rose, currently the VP of R&D, but way back in time, the head designer and head developer of Mirage.

Hey, Bill.

Hello.

How are you?

There's not a lot of sets in magic, by the way, that the same person led the first part of it

and led the second part of it.

That is true.

I mean, it's actually a vision of Richards and one that I adopted pretty early,

we separate. We force people who have designed not to lead the set or vice versa.

But back in the day, Mark, when there were only like four of us doing everything, you know,

we all worked on all products back. That was 95? Yeah, I mean, when we first, you and I first

started, like, there were four of us and every development team was us. We were every day. There

was no, who was this development team? It was us. So Marage's origins predate you being a wizard.

So let's go back to the very beginning of how do Marage start?

We started working on Mirage before Magic was officially released in 93.

Okay.

So we were original playters with Richard Garfield and working on the game,

and Richard had this idea of expansions.

And I had a group who worked on Mirage,

well, there was another group that worked on Ice Age. They were both

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